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	<title>Comments on: The Republican (Not So) Short List</title>
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	<description>The Supreme Court of the United States blog</description>
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		<title>By: chri1720</title>
		<link>http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/the-republican-not-so-short-list-2/comment-page-1/#comment-11736</link>
		<dc:creator>chri1720</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jul 2007 13:53:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/uncategorized/the-republican-not-so-short-list-2/#comment-11736</guid>
		<description>Erik:

Why do you think Souter is on the out? He seems healthy and have settled on his role as an associate justice pretty well. He may act like a reclusive person, but he seem engaging enough during oral arguments.

But given the performance of the supreme court this year, I doubt the senate democrats will allow another conservative pass them even if a republican president is elected.

-Chee Foong Chew
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Erik:</p>
<p>Why do you think Souter is on the out? He seems healthy and have settled on his role as an associate justice pretty well. He may act like a reclusive person, but he seem engaging enough during oral arguments.</p>
<p>But given the performance of the supreme court this year, I doubt the senate democrats will allow another conservative pass them even if a republican president is elected.</p>
<p>-Chee Foong Chew</p>
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		<title>By: Simon Dodd</title>
		<link>http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/the-republican-not-so-short-list-2/comment-page-1/#comment-11735</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon Dodd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 03:36:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/uncategorized/the-republican-not-so-short-list-2/#comment-11735</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d second the question raied by &quot;rufus peckham&quot; upthread as to why Diane Sykes isn&#039;t on your list, Tom?
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d second the question raied by &#8220;rufus peckham&#8221; upthread as to why Diane Sykes isn&#8217;t on your list, Tom?</p>
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		<title>By: Chice</title>
		<link>http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/the-republican-not-so-short-list-2/comment-page-1/#comment-11734</link>
		<dc:creator>Chice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 03:31:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/uncategorized/the-republican-not-so-short-list-2/#comment-11734</guid>
		<description>I agree with Tom about Souter: he&#039;s on the way out.  I could see him holding out for another four years if a conservative republican president is elected in &#039;08, but if a moderate republican (Giuliani) or a democrat is elected, I think he&#039;ll be out of here, especially if Stevens leaves first, which would make him the senior member of the liberal wing (and responsible for writing dissents in 5-4 rulings).

--Erik Rice
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Tom about Souter: he&#8217;s on the way out.  I could see him holding out for another four years if a conservative republican president is elected in &#8216;08, but if a moderate republican (Giuliani) or a democrat is elected, I think he&#8217;ll be out of here, especially if Stevens leaves first, which would make him the senior member of the liberal wing (and responsible for writing dissents in 5-4 rulings).</p>
<p>&#8211;Erik Rice</p>
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		<title>By: kedarbhatia</title>
		<link>http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/the-republican-not-so-short-list-2/comment-page-1/#comment-11733</link>
		<dc:creator>kedarbhatia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2007 16:13:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/uncategorized/the-republican-not-so-short-list-2/#comment-11733</guid>
		<description>I know for a fact that Judge Lee Rosenthal is on the Republican&#039;s list because a good friend of mine related to her told me that she was interviewed at one point by the Whitehouse during the Rhenquist/O&#039;Connor vacancies. Admittedly, she was born in &#039;52, making her a prime candidate in 2005 but now a rather old appointee.

--Kedar Bhatia
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know for a fact that Judge Lee Rosenthal is on the Republican&#8217;s list because a good friend of mine related to her told me that she was interviewed at one point by the Whitehouse during the Rhenquist/O&#8217;Connor vacancies. Admittedly, she was born in &#8216;52, making her a prime candidate in 2005 but now a rather old appointee.</p>
<p>&#8211;Kedar Bhatia</p>
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		<title>By: Jacques McKenzie</title>
		<link>http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/the-republican-not-so-short-list-2/comment-page-1/#comment-11732</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacques McKenzie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2007 20:46:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/uncategorized/the-republican-not-so-short-list-2/#comment-11732</guid>
		<description>Matthew,

Thanks for the ignorant distortions. I am not confused.

Griffith&#039;s opposition to Title IX would be converted into hostility to women&#039;s rights in general, including abortion. Not to mention Griffith compared himself to Rick Santorum.

http://www.now.org/issues/judicial/griffith.html


And conservatives trying to read the tea-leaves have concluded that Clement would be a reliable social conservative, more so than O&#039;Connor and Kennedy. That certainly puts her in the &quot;dismantle Roe&quot; column.

http://www.redstate.com/story/2005/7/19/102823/364


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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matthew,</p>
<p>Thanks for the ignorant distortions. I am not confused.</p>
<p>Griffith&#8217;s opposition to Title IX would be converted into hostility to women&#8217;s rights in general, including abortion. Not to mention Griffith compared himself to Rick Santorum.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.now.org/issues/judicial/griffith.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.now.org/issues/judicial/griffith.html</a></p>
<p>And conservatives trying to read the tea-leaves have concluded that Clement would be a reliable social conservative, more so than O&#8217;Connor and Kennedy. That certainly puts her in the &#8220;dismantle Roe&#8221; column.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.redstate.com/story/2005/7/19/102823/364" rel="nofollow">http://www.redstate.com/story/2005/7/19/102823/364</a></p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Friendly</title>
		<link>http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/the-republican-not-so-short-list-2/comment-page-1/#comment-11731</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Friendly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2007 19:08:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/uncategorized/the-republican-not-so-short-list-2/#comment-11731</guid>
		<description>Andrew Oh-Willeke:

Again, you sound like Harry Reid: ill-informed of the substance of Thomas&#039;s opinions but jumping on the bandwagon nonetheless.  Next you&#039;ll be citing cases as examples of his &quot;shallow&quot; reasoning where he didn&#039;t even write the opinion, or where it was a unanimous opinion.  Go back, READ some of his opinions, and then make honest arguments against his abilities.  Don&#039;t simply parrot the &quot;Thomas is an intellectual lightweight&quot; garbage that passes as truth in elitist circles.  Do some actual research and work.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew Oh-Willeke:</p>
<p>Again, you sound like Harry Reid: ill-informed of the substance of Thomas&#8217;s opinions but jumping on the bandwagon nonetheless.  Next you&#8217;ll be citing cases as examples of his &#8220;shallow&#8221; reasoning where he didn&#8217;t even write the opinion, or where it was a unanimous opinion.  Go back, READ some of his opinions, and then make honest arguments against his abilities.  Don&#8217;t simply parrot the &#8220;Thomas is an intellectual lightweight&#8221; garbage that passes as truth in elitist circles.  Do some actual research and work.</p>
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		<title>By: Marc Shepherd</title>
		<link>http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/the-republican-not-so-short-list-2/comment-page-1/#comment-11730</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc Shepherd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2007 19:04:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/uncategorized/the-republican-not-so-short-list-2/#comment-11730</guid>
		<description>Matthew Friendly, all of the points I mentioned are traits often sought in judges (e.g., respect for precedent, ability to find compromise, resolving cases on the narrowest grounds). A judge/justice who does not value these traits might reasonably be called &quot;mediocre&quot; by those who do.

It&#039;s notable that, although President Bush had high praise for Justice Thomas during the campaign cycle, he&#039;s had two opportunities to appoint another justice in that mold, and he did not do so. We haven&#039;t had as much time to observe Chief Justice Roberts and Justice Alito, but so far neither of them has emulated Justice Thomas&#039;s approach to the law. Obviously they are conservatives too, but their approach to the &lt;i&gt;craft&lt;/i&gt; of judging is simply different.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matthew Friendly, all of the points I mentioned are traits often sought in judges (e.g., respect for precedent, ability to find compromise, resolving cases on the narrowest grounds). A judge/justice who does not value these traits might reasonably be called &#8220;mediocre&#8221; by those who do.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s notable that, although President Bush had high praise for Justice Thomas during the campaign cycle, he&#8217;s had two opportunities to appoint another justice in that mold, and he did not do so. We haven&#8217;t had as much time to observe Chief Justice Roberts and Justice Alito, but so far neither of them has emulated Justice Thomas&#8217;s approach to the law. Obviously they are conservatives too, but their approach to the <i>craft</i> of judging is simply different.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Friendly</title>
		<link>http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/the-republican-not-so-short-list-2/comment-page-1/#comment-11729</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Friendly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2007 19:02:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/uncategorized/the-republican-not-so-short-list-2/#comment-11729</guid>
		<description>Jacques:

You must be confusing Edith Brown Clement with Edith Jones, both judges on the Fifth Circuit.  Jones has clearly come out against Roe.  Clement has no such voiced opinions.

As for Griffith, as a judge on the DC Circuit, he would have had no opportunities to rule on anything abortion related, so I&#039;m not sure why you think he has rendered any such opinion.  The DC Circuit rarely if ever hears cases with any sort of social issues implications.  To my knowledge (and I have research most of these people), he has never voiced any position with regard to Roe and/or abortion, which is one of the reasons he received more than 70 votes for confirmation.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jacques:</p>
<p>You must be confusing Edith Brown Clement with Edith Jones, both judges on the Fifth Circuit.  Jones has clearly come out against Roe.  Clement has no such voiced opinions.</p>
<p>As for Griffith, as a judge on the DC Circuit, he would have had no opportunities to rule on anything abortion related, so I&#8217;m not sure why you think he has rendered any such opinion.  The DC Circuit rarely if ever hears cases with any sort of social issues implications.  To my knowledge (and I have research most of these people), he has never voiced any position with regard to Roe and/or abortion, which is one of the reasons he received more than 70 votes for confirmation.</p>
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		<title>By: chri1720</title>
		<link>http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/the-republican-not-so-short-list-2/comment-page-1/#comment-11728</link>
		<dc:creator>chri1720</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2007 18:33:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/uncategorized/the-republican-not-so-short-list-2/#comment-11728</guid>
		<description>Matthew Friendly: I believe bringing coalitions together isn&#039;t always political in nature, coaxing and persuading your collegues to change his view and join yours is an important quality of a justice.

On an unrelated note, why do some of us on this board thinks that Justice Souter would be first to retire?

-Chee Foong Chew
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matthew Friendly: I believe bringing coalitions together isn&#8217;t always political in nature, coaxing and persuading your collegues to change his view and join yours is an important quality of a justice.</p>
<p>On an unrelated note, why do some of us on this board thinks that Justice Souter would be first to retire?</p>
<p>-Chee Foong Chew</p>
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		<title>By: Jacques McKenzie</title>
		<link>http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/the-republican-not-so-short-list-2/comment-page-1/#comment-11727</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacques McKenzie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2007 18:30:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/uncategorized/the-republican-not-so-short-list-2/#comment-11727</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Thomas Griffith and Edith Brown Clement&lt;/i&gt;

Griffith and Clement have known abortion positions. They would be tarred as Roe-overturners.

I never said Gorush isn&#039;t brilliant. But those articles would be ripped apart and thrown in his face.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Thomas Griffith and Edith Brown Clement</i></p>
<p>Griffith and Clement have known abortion positions. They would be tarred as Roe-overturners.</p>
<p>I never said Gorush isn&#8217;t brilliant. But those articles would be ripped apart and thrown in his face.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Oh-Willeke</title>
		<link>http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/the-republican-not-so-short-list-2/comment-page-1/#comment-11726</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Oh-Willeke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2007 17:40:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/uncategorized/the-republican-not-so-short-list-2/#comment-11726</guid>
		<description>Matthew Friendly: Yes, I stand by my characterization of Justice Thomas.  It is based largely on his shallow reasoning in written opinions that does a poor job of persauding even his colleages and shows a poor understanding of the larger context of statutes when he interprets them (his pre-SCOTUS opinions were even worse).

While you appear to be taking a Goldwater-like &quot;extremism in defense of virtue is no vice&quot; approach to his jurisprudence, his tin ear for even long standing understandings of what certain provisions of the constitution mean takes him far from both the umpire model of jurisprudence to which so many conservatives purport to aspire, and from the purposive tradition oriented jurisprudence that sees the constitution as having an underlying political theory that is intends to carry out that needs to guide the continuing development of a constitutional tradition, which most liberals tend to favor.

Of course, that is really beyond the scope of the orignal post here.  Also, thanks for correcting the Eid DOB data.  I made a quick and dirty guess based on graduation dates in her biography, as I didn&#039;t have the actual DOB close at hand.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matthew Friendly: Yes, I stand by my characterization of Justice Thomas.  It is based largely on his shallow reasoning in written opinions that does a poor job of persauding even his colleages and shows a poor understanding of the larger context of statutes when he interprets them (his pre-SCOTUS opinions were even worse).</p>
<p>While you appear to be taking a Goldwater-like &#8220;extremism in defense of virtue is no vice&#8221; approach to his jurisprudence, his tin ear for even long standing understandings of what certain provisions of the constitution mean takes him far from both the umpire model of jurisprudence to which so many conservatives purport to aspire, and from the purposive tradition oriented jurisprudence that sees the constitution as having an underlying political theory that is intends to carry out that needs to guide the continuing development of a constitutional tradition, which most liberals tend to favor.</p>
<p>Of course, that is really beyond the scope of the orignal post here.  Also, thanks for correcting the Eid DOB data.  I made a quick and dirty guess based on graduation dates in her biography, as I didn&#8217;t have the actual DOB close at hand.</p>
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		<title>By: chri1720</title>
		<link>http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/the-republican-not-so-short-list-2/comment-page-1/#comment-11725</link>
		<dc:creator>chri1720</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2007 16:28:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/uncategorized/the-republican-not-so-short-list-2/#comment-11725</guid>
		<description>I can definitely see where you&#039;re coming from, Marc regarding Justice
Thomas. He is definitely not a consensus builder, he is in my view one
of the extreme justice on the court. In some ways, the Chief Justice is
stuck in a bad place, he needs Justice Scalia and Thomas, but he also
needs to make the opinion moderate enough to get the vote from Justice
Kennedy and his own admission of unwilling to overrule precedents.

--Chee Foong Chew

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can definitely see where you&#8217;re coming from, Marc regarding Justice<br />
Thomas. He is definitely not a consensus builder, he is in my view one<br />
of the extreme justice on the court. In some ways, the Chief Justice is<br />
stuck in a bad place, he needs Justice Scalia and Thomas, but he also<br />
needs to make the opinion moderate enough to get the vote from Justice<br />
Kennedy and his own admission of unwilling to overrule precedents.</p>
<p>&#8211;Chee Foong Chew</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Friendly</title>
		<link>http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/the-republican-not-so-short-list-2/comment-page-1/#comment-11724</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Friendly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2007 16:19:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/uncategorized/the-republican-not-so-short-list-2/#comment-11724</guid>
		<description>Tom:

How about Lee Rosenthal and Loretta Preska?  Both have been mentioned on more than one occasion as excellent, conservative judges on the short list.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom:</p>
<p>How about Lee Rosenthal and Loretta Preska?  Both have been mentioned on more than one occasion as excellent, conservative judges on the short list.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Friendly</title>
		<link>http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/the-republican-not-so-short-list-2/comment-page-1/#comment-11723</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Friendly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2007 16:14:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/uncategorized/the-republican-not-so-short-list-2/#comment-11723</guid>
		<description>Jacques:

Thomas Griffith and Edith Brown Clement have almost no record on social issues.  To what are you referring?

Gorsuch has written an article or two, but they&#039;re intelligent positions and easily defensible.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jacques:</p>
<p>Thomas Griffith and Edith Brown Clement have almost no record on social issues.  To what are you referring?</p>
<p>Gorsuch has written an article or two, but they&#8217;re intelligent positions and easily defensible.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Friendly</title>
		<link>http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/the-republican-not-so-short-list-2/comment-page-1/#comment-11722</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Friendly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2007 16:09:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/uncategorized/the-republican-not-so-short-list-2/#comment-11722</guid>
		<description>Marc Shepherd:

You make my argument for me.  Under none of your criteria can Thomas be considered mediocre.  First you say &quot;he has a clear vision of the law which he sticks to rigorously.&quot;  This is a fundamental characteristic of a successful SCOTUS justice (cf. David Souter).  Further you say this makes his jurisprudence &quot;either breathtaking or frustrating.&quot;  Nothing mediocre about that.  The points of being a visionary or out-of-touch are meaningless and demonstrate the writer&#039;s misunderstanding of the justice&#039;s role.  A justice needs to be in-touch with nothing other than the law, so to the extent the pejorative &quot;out-of-touch&quot; refers to some preferred social understanding, it is foolish and naive.

Your point about writing majority opinions vs. dissents is important but misses the point.  The ability to bring coalitions together for majorities is political in nature, and has very little to do with one&#039;s legal or jurisprudential ability.  Warren was a master politician but a third-rate legal mind.  Similarly was Brennan, though his legal acumen was considerably greater than Warren&#039;s.  And many of the great justices are remembered for their dissents, which often eventually became (or influenced) the law of the land: Harlan (I &amp; II), Holmes, Brandeis, Black, Frankfurter, and more recently Rehnquist and Scalia.

That is not to say Thomas measures up with those legal giants.  It is to say no honest, reasonable argument can be made that he is mediocre.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marc Shepherd:</p>
<p>You make my argument for me.  Under none of your criteria can Thomas be considered mediocre.  First you say &#8220;he has a clear vision of the law which he sticks to rigorously.&#8221;  This is a fundamental characteristic of a successful SCOTUS justice (cf. David Souter).  Further you say this makes his jurisprudence &#8220;either breathtaking or frustrating.&#8221;  Nothing mediocre about that.  The points of being a visionary or out-of-touch are meaningless and demonstrate the writer&#8217;s misunderstanding of the justice&#8217;s role.  A justice needs to be in-touch with nothing other than the law, so to the extent the pejorative &#8220;out-of-touch&#8221; refers to some preferred social understanding, it is foolish and naive.</p>
<p>Your point about writing majority opinions vs. dissents is important but misses the point.  The ability to bring coalitions together for majorities is political in nature, and has very little to do with one&#8217;s legal or jurisprudential ability.  Warren was a master politician but a third-rate legal mind.  Similarly was Brennan, though his legal acumen was considerably greater than Warren&#8217;s.  And many of the great justices are remembered for their dissents, which often eventually became (or influenced) the law of the land: Harlan (I &#038; II), Holmes, Brandeis, Black, Frankfurter, and more recently Rehnquist and Scalia.</p>
<p>That is not to say Thomas measures up with those legal giants.  It is to say no honest, reasonable argument can be made that he is mediocre.</p>
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