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	<title>Comments on: Analysis: Exclusionary rule in trouble?</title>
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		<title>By: Andrew Williams</title>
		<link>http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/analysis-exclusionary-rule-in-trouble/comment-page-1/#comment-9835</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jun 2006 04:12:29 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>As regards Hudson, the only comment I can add is to quote Charlton Heston&#039;s character from *Touch of Evil*: &quot;A policeman&#039;s job is easy only in a police state.&quot;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As regards Hudson, the only comment I can add is to quote Charlton Heston&#8217;s character from *Touch of Evil*: &#8220;A policeman&#8217;s job is easy only in a police state.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Williams</title>
		<link>http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/analysis-exclusionary-rule-in-trouble/comment-page-1/#comment-9834</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jun 2006 04:11:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>As regards Hudson, the only comment I can make is what Charlton Heston&#039;s character says in the movie *Touch of Evil*: &quot;A policeman&#039;s job is easy only in a police state.&quot;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As regards Hudson, the only comment I can make is what Charlton Heston&#8217;s character says in the movie *Touch of Evil*: &#8220;A policeman&#8217;s job is easy only in a police state.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: federalist</title>
		<link>http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/analysis-exclusionary-rule-in-trouble/comment-page-1/#comment-9833</link>
		<dc:creator>federalist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jun 2006 14:13:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Not sure that the Bush comment is germane.  This is not a case of the feds kicking someone&#039;s door down . . . ., but rather state actors in a blue state.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not sure that the Bush comment is germane.  This is not a case of the feds kicking someone&#8217;s door down . . . ., but rather state actors in a blue state.</p>
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		<title>By: BernieK</title>
		<link>http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/analysis-exclusionary-rule-in-trouble/comment-page-1/#comment-9832</link>
		<dc:creator>BernieK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jun 2006 13:57:48 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Federalist, that a cop does not use deadly force is, I think [and HOPE] based not upon the fear of a civil rights lawsuit, but more upon the impact of using deadly force.  I do not think that most cops are trigger-happy madmen looking to shoot people.  They may not be well-versed at all in the law, and take a dim view of a perpetrator&#039;s civil rights, but that is a long way from wasting a perp.
And, yes, you are technically correct about the exclusionary rule, but, as the S. Ct. has stated many times, the rule is the most important effectuating tool to protect us from improper searches and seizures.  See US v. Leon, 468 U.S. 897 (1984); Dunaway v. NY, 442 U.S. 200, 217-18 (1979).  Do away with the exclusionary rule, or even dilute it as Hudson does, and you continue that creep towrds a diminution of our rights.  Remember, the Framers included the right in response to the the King&#039;s invasion of their homes  without caring about due process and warrants.  And, while the current chief of state may be as much a loon as Geo. III, he is there for another 2 years. [But, than again, Geo. III had as an advisor Lord North who knew when a war was lost and saving soldiers lives was most important.]
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Federalist, that a cop does not use deadly force is, I think [and HOPE] based not upon the fear of a civil rights lawsuit, but more upon the impact of using deadly force.  I do not think that most cops are trigger-happy madmen looking to shoot people.  They may not be well-versed at all in the law, and take a dim view of a perpetrator&#8217;s civil rights, but that is a long way from wasting a perp.<br />
And, yes, you are technically correct about the exclusionary rule, but, as the S. Ct. has stated many times, the rule is the most important effectuating tool to protect us from improper searches and seizures.  See US v. Leon, 468 U.S. 897 (1984); Dunaway v. NY, 442 U.S. 200, 217-18 (1979).  Do away with the exclusionary rule, or even dilute it as Hudson does, and you continue that creep towrds a diminution of our rights.  Remember, the Framers included the right in response to the the King&#8217;s invasion of their homes  without caring about due process and warrants.  And, while the current chief of state may be as much a loon as Geo. III, he is there for another 2 years. [But, than again, Geo. III had as an advisor Lord North who knew when a war was lost and saving soldiers lives was most important.]</p>
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		<title>By: federalist</title>
		<link>http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/analysis-exclusionary-rule-in-trouble/comment-page-1/#comment-9831</link>
		<dc:creator>federalist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jun 2006 23:58:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/uncategorized/analysis-exclusionary-rule-in-trouble/#comment-9831</guid>
		<description>The Ralph Robbins example seems to point up the nonsense of some of these civil rights lawsuits in the first place.  An officer demands that someone get out of the car, and the guy starts moving the car??  Seems to me that officers who shatter a car window in that case are not acting unreasonably.

In any event, it would be interest to look at an analogous situation, namely, the ability of police officers to use deadly force. Have studies been conducted to the rate of police officers refraining from the use of deadly force, even when authorized?  If, as I suspect, police are doing so (i.e., often refraining from the use of deadly force), then maybe police can be trusted to follow the knock-and-announce rule in general.

Also, let&#039;s not forget that the exclusionary rule is NOT a constitutional command.  Yes, an exclusionary rule would be an effective means of enforcing knock and announce, but to say that this is simply a horrible decision (given the fact that the police would have found the evidence anyway) is over the top.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Ralph Robbins example seems to point up the nonsense of some of these civil rights lawsuits in the first place.  An officer demands that someone get out of the car, and the guy starts moving the car??  Seems to me that officers who shatter a car window in that case are not acting unreasonably.</p>
<p>In any event, it would be interest to look at an analogous situation, namely, the ability of police officers to use deadly force. Have studies been conducted to the rate of police officers refraining from the use of deadly force, even when authorized?  If, as I suspect, police are doing so (i.e., often refraining from the use of deadly force), then maybe police can be trusted to follow the knock-and-announce rule in general.</p>
<p>Also, let&#8217;s not forget that the exclusionary rule is NOT a constitutional command.  Yes, an exclusionary rule would be an effective means of enforcing knock and announce, but to say that this is simply a horrible decision (given the fact that the police would have found the evidence anyway) is over the top.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Kennedy</title>
		<link>http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/analysis-exclusionary-rule-in-trouble/comment-page-1/#comment-9830</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Kennedy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:13:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/uncategorized/analysis-exclusionary-rule-in-trouble/#comment-9830</guid>
		<description>David, what is truly absurd with the Ralph Robbins example was that it was reasonable (not a civil rights violation) for the officer to fire gun shots through the windshield of car (which Robbins subsequently wrecked a few blocks away) hitting Mr Robbins two times, but smashing the window with the baton was somehow a civil rights violation.  I&#039;m hard pressed to now say that the officer owes Mr Robbins $10,000 after this incident.  Besides, it seems like your real issue is with the PLRA, as in this incident there wasn&#039;t any evidence to exclude.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, what is truly absurd with the Ralph Robbins example was that it was reasonable (not a civil rights violation) for the officer to fire gun shots through the windshield of car (which Robbins subsequently wrecked a few blocks away) hitting Mr Robbins two times, but smashing the window with the baton was somehow a civil rights violation.  I&#8217;m hard pressed to now say that the officer owes Mr Robbins $10,000 after this incident.  Besides, it seems like your real issue is with the PLRA, as in this incident there wasn&#8217;t any evidence to exclude.</p>
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		<title>By: Screwloose</title>
		<link>http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/analysis-exclusionary-rule-in-trouble/comment-page-1/#comment-9829</link>
		<dc:creator>Screwloose</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jun 2006 19:50:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/uncategorized/analysis-exclusionary-rule-in-trouble/#comment-9829</guid>
		<description>God Bless America, where the only people who don&#039;t have to knock before entering our homes are the police. Hudson v. Michigan, 2006&#039;s
version of the 4th Amendment.

To all the men whose dream was to own their own home in which to live and raise a family, Happy Fathers&#039; Day!

Screwloose


</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>God Bless America, where the only people who don&#8217;t have to knock before entering our homes are the police. Hudson v. Michigan, 2006&#8217;s<br />
version of the 4th Amendment.</p>
<p>To all the men whose dream was to own their own home in which to live and raise a family, Happy Fathers&#8217; Day!</p>
<p>Screwloose</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/analysis-exclusionary-rule-in-trouble/comment-page-1/#comment-9828</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jun 2006 08:04:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/uncategorized/analysis-exclusionary-rule-in-trouble/#comment-9828</guid>
		<description>In &lt;i&gt;Hudson&lt;/i&gt;, Scalia talks of civil lawsuits as an effective deterrent (i.e. – an alternative to the exclusionary rule) and how that&#039;s been bolstered by the authorization of attorney’s fees for civil-rights plaintiff&#039;s.  As he so eloquently notes, &quot;This remedy was unavailable in the heydays of our exclusionary-rule jurisprudence, because it is tied to the availability of a cause of action.&quot;  According to him, since some violations would yield damages too small to justify the expense of litigation, 42 U.S.C. § 1988(b) has come to the rescue and allowed attorneys to be paid despite any small judgments for the plaintiff.
&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
Not so fast, Nino.
&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
As a decision out of the Tenth Circuit from earlier this year makes painfully clear, that&#039;s not always true, and it certainly wouldn&#039;t be true for Hudson himself.  This is a case that should be on everyone&#039;s radar as they so passionately discuss the merits of civil lawsuits to combat violations of the Fourth Amendment rather than applying the exclusionary rule.
&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
Ralph Robbins (the plaintiff) was arrested for several outstanding traffic warrants against him.  During his apprehension and arrest, the police officer smashed the driver’s side window of the vehicle Robbins was in.  He was eventually charged and convicted of aggravated assault on a law enforcement officer and incarcerated.
&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
While he was in prison, he filed a § 1983 lawsuit alleging violations of the Fourth Amendment by the officer during his arrest.  The court ruled that the use of force in breaking the car window in an effort to arrest the plaintiff was unreasonable, but because he suffered no physical injuries he was awarded only nominal damages of $1.00. That&#039;s one dollar.
&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
It&#039;s imperative to note that damages in a § 1983 action must be based on damages actually suffered, as the purpose of such a lawsuit is to compensate persons for injuries caused by the depravation of constitutional rights.  &lt;i&gt;Memphis Community School District v. Stachura&lt;/i&gt;, 477 U.S. 299, 307 (1986) (citing &lt;i&gt;Carey v. Piphus&lt;/i&gt;, 435 U.S. 247, 254, 257 (1978).  Courts have permitted awards of compensation for the emotional shock or physical harm caused by an unconstitutional search or seizure.  See &lt;i&gt;Bivens v. Six Unknown Named Agents of the Federal Bureau of Narcotics&lt;/i&gt;, 403 U.S. 388 (1971) (emotional damages for unconstitutional search of apartment and arrest).
&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
Nonetheless, absent actual injury, only nominal damages recoverable for § 1983 violations unless punitive damages are awarded to deter or punish the malicious deprivation of rights. &lt;i&gt;Piphus&lt;/i&gt;, Id. at 254-55.
&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
Now back to our $1.00 victory for the plaintiff in this case.
&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
The plaintiff&#039;s lawyer sought attorney&#039;s fees under § 1988 (remember, Scalia&#039;s &quot;bolstering&quot; reference in &lt;i&gt;Hudson&lt;/i&gt;) and the court awarded $9,680.  A panel of the Tenth Circuit upheld this award, 402 F.3d 1047 (10th Cir. 2005), but on rehearing en banc, the full court reversed and awarded the attorney a fee of $1.50.  That&#039;s one dollar and fifty-cents. 435 F.3d 1238 (10th Cir. 2006).
&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
The court ruled that the Prison Litigation Reform Act (PLRA), 42 U.S.C. § 1997e(d) limits attorney-fee awards in civil-rights suits filed by prisoners to 150% of the money judgment.  It did not find this outcome to be absurd. The panel stated:
&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&quot;Certainly, Mr. Leatherman&#039;s performance at oral argument before this court indicates how fortunate Mr. Robbins was to have such a compelling advocate on his side.  But any temptation we may have to reward Mr. Leatherman for his service is overcome by our duty to respect an Act of Congress.&quot;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
$1.50 to litigate a Fourth Amendment claim under § 1983 all the way up through an en banc panel of a federal appeals court.
&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
So what&#039;s the upshot of all this?
&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
Smashing down your front door and raiding your home in violation of the knock-and-announce rule to execute a warrant (like smashing the driver&#039;s side window of a vehicle you&#039;re sitting in to arrest you on outstanding warrants) might well violate the Fourth Amendment, but unless you suffer physical injury – or death – you&#039;re likely to receive only nominal damages (unless your able to successfully prove intentional or malicious misconduct on the part of the officers).
&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
And if you&#039;re in jail, whether because of the original charges leading to the raid or derivative evidence discovered thereafter (remember, no more suppression after Hudson), your attorney is severely limited in the amount of fees they&#039;re entitled to.
&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
Remember, it makes no difference that the misconduct occurred before the plaintiff&#039;s conviction or incarceration.  The court flatly rejected any interpretation of the PLRA that limited it to litigation concerning their post-incarceration treatment. &quot;We see nothing absurd about reducing that incentive for &lt;i&gt;all&lt;/i&gt; civil-rights claims filed by prisoners, not just those challenging conditions in prison.&quot;  435 F.3d at 1244 (emphasis in original).
&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
So Scalia&#039;s rose-colored vision of § 1988 coming to the rescue of those civil-rights claims which don&#039;t provide large judgments is, at least partially, inaccurate. Yet, this is being touted as an effective alternative to the exclusionary rule which will serve as a deterrent to police misconduct.
&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
Unless you&#039;re injured, killed, or completely innocent and not jailed (i.e. – police raided the wrong house and didn&#039;t discover any other incriminating evidence during their unannounced visit), you cannot collect anything in damages that will make it worth the while of any attorney out there to take on your case (except those willing to do it &lt;i&gt;pro bono&lt;/i&gt;).
&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
With both state and federal legislatures currently engaged in a serious wave of tort reform and capping of attorney&#039;s fees, it&#039;s unlikely that any exception is going to be opened up to allow meaningful Fourth Amendment claims (i.e. – those which would operate as effectively and efficiently as the exclusionary rule) on behalf of &quot;criminals&quot; and those who are otherwise presumed guilty.
&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
When the police violate the knock-and-announce rule (at least as it now stands in my home state of Florida because we&#039;re chained to SCOTUS Fourth Amendment decisions via a 1982 amendment to our state constitution), you get convicted and nothing happens to the police (absent the aggravating circumstances mentioned above).  When you can violate a rule or the law without any consequences then the rule is meaningless.  It may as well not even exist.
&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
Some might find this perfectly acceptable, but it certainly undermines the significance of the Court&#039;s decision in &lt;i&gt;Wilson&lt;/i&gt;, 514 U.S. 927 (establishing the knock-and-announce rule as part of the reasonableness requirement of the Fourth Amendment).  Moreover, I&#039;ll quote professor Wayne R. LaFave (a highly recognized preeminent authority on the Fourth Amendment) who has said: &quot;The violate now and pay later character of the tort remedy would permit the government to buy itself out of having to comply with constitutional commands.  To abolish the exclusionary rule and replace it with an action for damages against the government treasury is to have the law speak with two voices.  The Fourth Amendment does not grant the government the discretion to decide whether the benefits of infringing the public&#039;s right to be protected from unreasonable searches and seizures are worth some expenditure of the public&#039;s funds; the language of the amendment is an affirmative command.&quot;  &lt;i&gt;Search &amp; Seizure&lt;/i&gt;, § 1.2(c) (3d ed. 1996).  We&#039;re headed for serious trouble when we start permitting the police to violate the constitution based upon the dollar value we attach to their misconduct.
&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
Back to the &lt;i&gt;Robbins&lt;/i&gt; decision from the Tenth Circuit, I&#039;m going to borrow from a post over at appellatedecisions.blogspot.com:
&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&quot;So Robbins&#039; attorney did all that work for free.  But as a consolation prize, the Court applauds his performance at oral argument, calling to mind a certain credit card advertisement:
&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
Winning a civil rights case . . . $10,000 . . .
&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
Losing on appeal . . . $1.50 . . .
&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
The unanimous praise of an en banc panel of the Tenth Circuit . . . priceless.&quot;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
I&#039;ll add one more to that list:
&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
The value of the knock-and-announce rule after &lt;i&gt;Hudson&lt;/i&gt; . . . . worthless.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In <i>Hudson</i>, Scalia talks of civil lawsuits as an effective deterrent (i.e. – an alternative to the exclusionary rule) and how that&#8217;s been bolstered by the authorization of attorney’s fees for civil-rights plaintiff&#8217;s.  As he so eloquently notes, &#8220;This remedy was unavailable in the heydays of our exclusionary-rule jurisprudence, because it is tied to the availability of a cause of action.&#8221;  According to him, since some violations would yield damages too small to justify the expense of litigation, 42 U.S.C. § 1988(b) has come to the rescue and allowed attorneys to be paid despite any small judgments for the plaintiff.</p>
<p>Not so fast, Nino.</p>
<p>As a decision out of the Tenth Circuit from earlier this year makes painfully clear, that&#8217;s not always true, and it certainly wouldn&#8217;t be true for Hudson himself.  This is a case that should be on everyone&#8217;s radar as they so passionately discuss the merits of civil lawsuits to combat violations of the Fourth Amendment rather than applying the exclusionary rule.</p>
<p>Ralph Robbins (the plaintiff) was arrested for several outstanding traffic warrants against him.  During his apprehension and arrest, the police officer smashed the driver’s side window of the vehicle Robbins was in.  He was eventually charged and convicted of aggravated assault on a law enforcement officer and incarcerated.</p>
<p>While he was in prison, he filed a § 1983 lawsuit alleging violations of the Fourth Amendment by the officer during his arrest.  The court ruled that the use of force in breaking the car window in an effort to arrest the plaintiff was unreasonable, but because he suffered no physical injuries he was awarded only nominal damages of $1.00. That&#8217;s one dollar.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s imperative to note that damages in a § 1983 action must be based on damages actually suffered, as the purpose of such a lawsuit is to compensate persons for injuries caused by the depravation of constitutional rights.  <i>Memphis Community School District v. Stachura</i>, 477 U.S. 299, 307 (1986) (citing <i>Carey v. Piphus</i>, 435 U.S. 247, 254, 257 (1978).  Courts have permitted awards of compensation for the emotional shock or physical harm caused by an unconstitutional search or seizure.  See <i>Bivens v. Six Unknown Named Agents of the Federal Bureau of Narcotics</i>, 403 U.S. 388 (1971) (emotional damages for unconstitutional search of apartment and arrest).</p>
<p>Nonetheless, absent actual injury, only nominal damages recoverable for § 1983 violations unless punitive damages are awarded to deter or punish the malicious deprivation of rights. <i>Piphus</i>, Id. at 254-55.</p>
<p>Now back to our $1.00 victory for the plaintiff in this case.</p>
<p>The plaintiff&#8217;s lawyer sought attorney&#8217;s fees under § 1988 (remember, Scalia&#8217;s &#8220;bolstering&#8221; reference in <i>Hudson</i>) and the court awarded $9,680.  A panel of the Tenth Circuit upheld this award, 402 F.3d 1047 (10th Cir. 2005), but on rehearing en banc, the full court reversed and awarded the attorney a fee of $1.50.  That&#8217;s one dollar and fifty-cents. 435 F.3d 1238 (10th Cir. 2006).</p>
<p>The court ruled that the Prison Litigation Reform Act (PLRA), 42 U.S.C. § 1997e(d) limits attorney-fee awards in civil-rights suits filed by prisoners to 150% of the money judgment.  It did not find this outcome to be absurd. The panel stated:</p>
<p>&#8220;Certainly, Mr. Leatherman&#8217;s performance at oral argument before this court indicates how fortunate Mr. Robbins was to have such a compelling advocate on his side.  But any temptation we may have to reward Mr. Leatherman for his service is overcome by our duty to respect an Act of Congress.&#8221;</p>
<p>$1.50 to litigate a Fourth Amendment claim under § 1983 all the way up through an en banc panel of a federal appeals court.</p>
<p>So what&#8217;s the upshot of all this?</p>
<p>Smashing down your front door and raiding your home in violation of the knock-and-announce rule to execute a warrant (like smashing the driver&#8217;s side window of a vehicle you&#8217;re sitting in to arrest you on outstanding warrants) might well violate the Fourth Amendment, but unless you suffer physical injury – or death – you&#8217;re likely to receive only nominal damages (unless your able to successfully prove intentional or malicious misconduct on the part of the officers).</p>
<p>And if you&#8217;re in jail, whether because of the original charges leading to the raid or derivative evidence discovered thereafter (remember, no more suppression after Hudson), your attorney is severely limited in the amount of fees they&#8217;re entitled to.</p>
<p>Remember, it makes no difference that the misconduct occurred before the plaintiff&#8217;s conviction or incarceration.  The court flatly rejected any interpretation of the PLRA that limited it to litigation concerning their post-incarceration treatment. &#8220;We see nothing absurd about reducing that incentive for <i>all</i> civil-rights claims filed by prisoners, not just those challenging conditions in prison.&#8221;  435 F.3d at 1244 (emphasis in original).</p>
<p>So Scalia&#8217;s rose-colored vision of § 1988 coming to the rescue of those civil-rights claims which don&#8217;t provide large judgments is, at least partially, inaccurate. Yet, this is being touted as an effective alternative to the exclusionary rule which will serve as a deterrent to police misconduct.</p>
<p>Unless you&#8217;re injured, killed, or completely innocent and not jailed (i.e. – police raided the wrong house and didn&#8217;t discover any other incriminating evidence during their unannounced visit), you cannot collect anything in damages that will make it worth the while of any attorney out there to take on your case (except those willing to do it <i>pro bono</i>).</p>
<p>With both state and federal legislatures currently engaged in a serious wave of tort reform and capping of attorney&#8217;s fees, it&#8217;s unlikely that any exception is going to be opened up to allow meaningful Fourth Amendment claims (i.e. – those which would operate as effectively and efficiently as the exclusionary rule) on behalf of &#8220;criminals&#8221; and those who are otherwise presumed guilty.</p>
<p>When the police violate the knock-and-announce rule (at least as it now stands in my home state of Florida because we&#8217;re chained to SCOTUS Fourth Amendment decisions via a 1982 amendment to our state constitution), you get convicted and nothing happens to the police (absent the aggravating circumstances mentioned above).  When you can violate a rule or the law without any consequences then the rule is meaningless.  It may as well not even exist.</p>
<p>Some might find this perfectly acceptable, but it certainly undermines the significance of the Court&#8217;s decision in <i>Wilson</i>, 514 U.S. 927 (establishing the knock-and-announce rule as part of the reasonableness requirement of the Fourth Amendment).  Moreover, I&#8217;ll quote professor Wayne R. LaFave (a highly recognized preeminent authority on the Fourth Amendment) who has said: &#8220;The violate now and pay later character of the tort remedy would permit the government to buy itself out of having to comply with constitutional commands.  To abolish the exclusionary rule and replace it with an action for damages against the government treasury is to have the law speak with two voices.  The Fourth Amendment does not grant the government the discretion to decide whether the benefits of infringing the public&#8217;s right to be protected from unreasonable searches and seizures are worth some expenditure of the public&#8217;s funds; the language of the amendment is an affirmative command.&#8221;  <i>Search &#038; Seizure</i>, § 1.2(c) (3d ed. 1996).  We&#8217;re headed for serious trouble when we start permitting the police to violate the constitution based upon the dollar value we attach to their misconduct.</p>
<p>Back to the <i>Robbins</i> decision from the Tenth Circuit, I&#8217;m going to borrow from a post over at appellatedecisions.blogspot.com:</p>
<p>&#8220;So Robbins&#8217; attorney did all that work for free.  But as a consolation prize, the Court applauds his performance at oral argument, calling to mind a certain credit card advertisement:</p>
<p>Winning a civil rights case . . . $10,000 . . .</p>
<p>Losing on appeal . . . $1.50 . . .</p>
<p>The unanimous praise of an en banc panel of the Tenth Circuit . . . priceless.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll add one more to that list:</p>
<p>The value of the knock-and-announce rule after <i>Hudson</i> . . . . worthless.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Kennedy</title>
		<link>http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/analysis-exclusionary-rule-in-trouble/comment-page-1/#comment-9827</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Kennedy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jun 2006 01:36:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/uncategorized/analysis-exclusionary-rule-in-trouble/#comment-9827</guid>
		<description>I understand your Martha point now - yes, it seems like she did get some bad advice.  And I was curious from your point of view as a criminal defense lawyer which Supreme Court decisions you think were more unfair to this one.  I think that it is probably true that those people who have never been arrested, don&#039;t know anyone who has been arrested, and see heroic upstanding law enforcement portrayed on TV probably have an unrealisic level of trust regarding law enforcement, though I&#039;m still not convinced that this particular case was decided incorrectly.  I don&#039;t see how a defective entry contributes to an unfair trial.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I understand your Martha point now &#8211; yes, it seems like she did get some bad advice.  And I was curious from your point of view as a criminal defense lawyer which Supreme Court decisions you think were more unfair to this one.  I think that it is probably true that those people who have never been arrested, don&#8217;t know anyone who has been arrested, and see heroic upstanding law enforcement portrayed on TV probably have an unrealisic level of trust regarding law enforcement, though I&#8217;m still not convinced that this particular case was decided incorrectly.  I don&#8217;t see how a defective entry contributes to an unfair trial.</p>
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		<title>By: BernieK</title>
		<link>http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/analysis-exclusionary-rule-in-trouble/comment-page-1/#comment-9826</link>
		<dc:creator>BernieK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jun 2006 01:13:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/uncategorized/analysis-exclusionary-rule-in-trouble/#comment-9826</guid>
		<description>Ben, what is my middle point, what is my third point?  if you are speaking of the proffer session scenario, these are not reported cases; just a matter of federal practice, and dealing with the US Atty&#039;s office for many years.  If you asking about Martha: why did her lawyer have her go into US Atty and speak with them?  I do not get it.  It was clear to me that she was the top of the pyramid.  I would never proffer on the top guy, you have nothing to offer.  And, all you end up doing is exposing your client to a sec. 1001 charge.  Which is what they nailed her on.  Duh-uh!  Read the 2d Circuit&#039;s op., Part 2.d.  IT is painful as a defense lawyer to read that.  Poor Martha was in the SDNY&#039;s cross-hairs from day one.  While not a personally sympathetic character, ther is no doubt she was F&#039;d royally by the feds.
Are you asking about other S. Ct. cases that may be more egregious than Hudson?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ben, what is my middle point, what is my third point?  if you are speaking of the proffer session scenario, these are not reported cases; just a matter of federal practice, and dealing with the US Atty&#8217;s office for many years.  If you asking about Martha: why did her lawyer have her go into US Atty and speak with them?  I do not get it.  It was clear to me that she was the top of the pyramid.  I would never proffer on the top guy, you have nothing to offer.  And, all you end up doing is exposing your client to a sec. 1001 charge.  Which is what they nailed her on.  Duh-uh!  Read the 2d Circuit&#8217;s op., Part 2.d.  IT is painful as a defense lawyer to read that.  Poor Martha was in the SDNY&#8217;s cross-hairs from day one.  While not a personally sympathetic character, ther is no doubt she was F&#8217;d royally by the feds.<br />
Are you asking about other S. Ct. cases that may be more egregious than Hudson?</p>
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		<title>By: Rich Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/analysis-exclusionary-rule-in-trouble/comment-page-1/#comment-9825</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jun 2006 22:25:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/uncategorized/analysis-exclusionary-rule-in-trouble/#comment-9825</guid>
		<description>Ben Kennedy wrote:

&quot;Should our criminal justice use the most draconian remedy (execution) to deter people&#039;s &quot;natural propensity&quot; to steal? Of course not - it is simple not fair. The state is not some faceless, liberty-hating monster - it represents the will of the people and the desire for safety and fairness.&quot;

I have to disagree.  The state implements practice in response to the concerns and desires of the majority of its constituents balanced against the concerns and desires of those who maintain the government&#039;s (and politician&#039;s) power.

Many citizens react to current events with knee-jerk reactions, such as &quot;get tough on crime&quot; (for example: California&#039;s three strikes) without ever considering the broader implications, such as the diversion of state resources for prisons, overcrowding, increased recidivism due to lack of vocational and educational rehabilitation, high burdens on parolees, lack of meaningful support.

The same citizens who decry the criminal who &quot;gets away&quot; on a constitutional issue (or technicality), which would have happened if this case had gone the other way, may have a negative reaction to the man who gets shot defending his own home when the police make a mistake or are misinformed and burst in at 2am.  &quot;The will of the people&quot; blows hot and cold; the law needs to be a bit more stable.

As for &quot;Draconian,&quot; the remedy needs to deter the behavior.  Officers won&#039;t get passed over for not knocking if they get the bad guy so it&#039;ll be a game of chance--if they get the bad guy, bully for them; if they are wrong they get to go back three steps unless an innocent gets hurt.  It&#039;ll be taken as a risk, and risks are involved in getting ahead.

The exclusionary rule is quite the deterrent; not getting advanced if things go badly probably won&#039;t be.  Perhaps the balancing test should be the seriousness of the crime—but then that doesn’t work because drug crimes are considered very serious (sorry, I still don’t get this one when compared to violent crime and corporate fraud—drugs are vice, and, well, I’ll save that for another day).   Murder is serious, maybe even possession of a firearm by a felon previously convicted of a crime involving a weapon.

I suppose we’ll have to wait and see.  I just hope my name never shows up on a suspect list.  My house is my home, and if someone comes in in the middle of the night, I’m shooting first and we’ll sort it out later. Maybe that&#039;s the whole point--the silk stocking set maybe concerned about being met by the police in their night clothes--me, I&#039;m more concerned about getting killed. (BTW, what&#039;s up with the paragraphs? (I&#039;m new here)

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ben Kennedy wrote:</p>
<p>&#8220;Should our criminal justice use the most draconian remedy (execution) to deter people&#8217;s &#8220;natural propensity&#8221; to steal? Of course not &#8211; it is simple not fair. The state is not some faceless, liberty-hating monster &#8211; it represents the will of the people and the desire for safety and fairness.&#8221;</p>
<p>I have to disagree.  The state implements practice in response to the concerns and desires of the majority of its constituents balanced against the concerns and desires of those who maintain the government&#8217;s (and politician&#8217;s) power.</p>
<p>Many citizens react to current events with knee-jerk reactions, such as &#8220;get tough on crime&#8221; (for example: California&#8217;s three strikes) without ever considering the broader implications, such as the diversion of state resources for prisons, overcrowding, increased recidivism due to lack of vocational and educational rehabilitation, high burdens on parolees, lack of meaningful support.</p>
<p>The same citizens who decry the criminal who &#8220;gets away&#8221; on a constitutional issue (or technicality), which would have happened if this case had gone the other way, may have a negative reaction to the man who gets shot defending his own home when the police make a mistake or are misinformed and burst in at 2am.  &#8220;The will of the people&#8221; blows hot and cold; the law needs to be a bit more stable.</p>
<p>As for &#8220;Draconian,&#8221; the remedy needs to deter the behavior.  Officers won&#8217;t get passed over for not knocking if they get the bad guy so it&#8217;ll be a game of chance&#8211;if they get the bad guy, bully for them; if they are wrong they get to go back three steps unless an innocent gets hurt.  It&#8217;ll be taken as a risk, and risks are involved in getting ahead.</p>
<p>The exclusionary rule is quite the deterrent; not getting advanced if things go badly probably won&#8217;t be.  Perhaps the balancing test should be the seriousness of the crime—but then that doesn’t work because drug crimes are considered very serious (sorry, I still don’t get this one when compared to violent crime and corporate fraud—drugs are vice, and, well, I’ll save that for another day).   Murder is serious, maybe even possession of a firearm by a felon previously convicted of a crime involving a weapon.</p>
<p>I suppose we’ll have to wait and see.  I just hope my name never shows up on a suspect list.  My house is my home, and if someone comes in in the middle of the night, I’m shooting first and we’ll sort it out later. Maybe that&#8217;s the whole point&#8211;the silk stocking set maybe concerned about being met by the police in their night clothes&#8211;me, I&#8217;m more concerned about getting killed. (BTW, what&#8217;s up with the paragraphs? (I&#8217;m new here)</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Kennedy</title>
		<link>http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/analysis-exclusionary-rule-in-trouble/comment-page-1/#comment-9824</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Kennedy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jun 2006 21:12:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/uncategorized/analysis-exclusionary-rule-in-trouble/#comment-9824</guid>
		<description>BernieK - I agree with you on drug offenses, I would tend to agree with Justice Thomas that the whole CSA is an unconstitutional exercise of federal authority.  I don&#039;t understand your middle point (not too familiar with the terminology).  To your third point, what are some of the cases your are thinking of?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BernieK &#8211; I agree with you on drug offenses, I would tend to agree with Justice Thomas that the whole CSA is an unconstitutional exercise of federal authority.  I don&#8217;t understand your middle point (not too familiar with the terminology).  To your third point, what are some of the cases your are thinking of?</p>
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		<title>By: BernieK</title>
		<link>http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/analysis-exclusionary-rule-in-trouble/comment-page-1/#comment-9823</link>
		<dc:creator>BernieK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jun 2006 20:49:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/uncategorized/analysis-exclusionary-rule-in-trouble/#comment-9823</guid>
		<description>Ben, back to the law. Punishments should neither be cruel nor unusual.  The incredible amount of time that that Title 18 and the USSG provide for drug offenses as opposed to crimes of violence is an example of draconian punishments.  As to prosecuting people for lying: yes Pres. Clinton and Martha Stewart were victims there [but in the latter case it may well have been poor lawyering, too].  Unfortunately, I have seen far too often where defendants go in for a proffer and tell their side of the story, this differs with that of the rat, there is no deal on co-operation and the govt indicts for lying.
We likely are more in agreement than disagreement, and I think there are far worse decisions of the Supremes that merit this type of give/take.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ben, back to the law. Punishments should neither be cruel nor unusual.  The incredible amount of time that that Title 18 and the USSG provide for drug offenses as opposed to crimes of violence is an example of draconian punishments.  As to prosecuting people for lying: yes Pres. Clinton and Martha Stewart were victims there [but in the latter case it may well have been poor lawyering, too].  Unfortunately, I have seen far too often where defendants go in for a proffer and tell their side of the story, this differs with that of the rat, there is no deal on co-operation and the govt indicts for lying.<br />
We likely are more in agreement than disagreement, and I think there are far worse decisions of the Supremes that merit this type of give/take.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Kennedy</title>
		<link>http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/analysis-exclusionary-rule-in-trouble/comment-page-1/#comment-9822</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Kennedy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jun 2006 20:35:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/uncategorized/analysis-exclusionary-rule-in-trouble/#comment-9822</guid>
		<description>BernieK, you are making less sense than your previous posts.  With regard to:

&quot;I think that the idea the state represents the wishes of the people is absurd&quot;

The state by definition represents the wishes of the people - maybe not perfectly, but this is not a perfect world.  Do you claim we no longer live in a representative democracy?  There are Constitutional remedies for unacceptable abuses of power, and of course elections to bring priorities of the government back in line with those people.

&quot;As to the need for &#039;Darconian penalities&#039;, I guess adopting sharia will please some of you, and OBL will have won.&quot;

I have no idea this is coming from - all I am stating that that draconian penalties are appropriate only for monstrous offenses.  Or, more generally speaking, punishments should simply be fair.  I don&#039;t like the idea of emotional testimony from victims as sentencing, as this can lead to different punishments for the same act.  I really don&#039;t like it when people are prosecuted for lying (e.g. Bill Clinton or Martha Stewart) as this is a prime example of unequal treatment - &quot;regular&quot; people never get prosecuted like that.

I know very little about Sharia, but if it includes disproportionate punishments, that is is not a just system.  Why do you assume that people who diagree with you want a religous theocracy?

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BernieK, you are making less sense than your previous posts.  With regard to:</p>
<p>&#8220;I think that the idea the state represents the wishes of the people is absurd&#8221;</p>
<p>The state by definition represents the wishes of the people &#8211; maybe not perfectly, but this is not a perfect world.  Do you claim we no longer live in a representative democracy?  There are Constitutional remedies for unacceptable abuses of power, and of course elections to bring priorities of the government back in line with those people.</p>
<p>&#8220;As to the need for &#8216;Darconian penalities&#8217;, I guess adopting sharia will please some of you, and OBL will have won.&#8221;</p>
<p>I have no idea this is coming from &#8211; all I am stating that that draconian penalties are appropriate only for monstrous offenses.  Or, more generally speaking, punishments should simply be fair.  I don&#8217;t like the idea of emotional testimony from victims as sentencing, as this can lead to different punishments for the same act.  I really don&#8217;t like it when people are prosecuted for lying (e.g. Bill Clinton or Martha Stewart) as this is a prime example of unequal treatment &#8211; &#8220;regular&#8221; people never get prosecuted like that.</p>
<p>I know very little about Sharia, but if it includes disproportionate punishments, that is is not a just system.  Why do you assume that people who diagree with you want a religous theocracy?</p>
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		<title>By: BernieK</title>
		<link>http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/analysis-exclusionary-rule-in-trouble/comment-page-1/#comment-9821</link>
		<dc:creator>BernieK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jun 2006 19:49:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/uncategorized/analysis-exclusionary-rule-in-trouble/#comment-9821</guid>
		<description>A few brief points, gentlemen:
1. &quot;[the state] represents the will of the people and the desire for safety and fairness.&quot;  Well, [and this relates to Kent&#039;s query] if the state were as Locke proposed, yes that&#039;s true.  But, with a government that feels it can use Natl Security Letters to find what books I checked out from the library, or have the NSA mine data on millions of Americans, or avoid the strictures of FISA in the name of &quot;national security&quot;, I think that the idea the state represents the wishes of the people is absurd.
3. As to the need for &quot;Darconian penalities&quot;, I guess adopting sharia will please some of you, and OBL will have won.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A few brief points, gentlemen:<br />
1. &#8220;[the state] represents the will of the people and the desire for safety and fairness.&#8221;  Well, [and this relates to Kent's query] if the state were as Locke proposed, yes that&#8217;s true.  But, with a government that feels it can use Natl Security Letters to find what books I checked out from the library, or have the NSA mine data on millions of Americans, or avoid the strictures of FISA in the name of &#8220;national security&#8221;, I think that the idea the state represents the wishes of the people is absurd.<br />
3. As to the need for &#8220;Darconian penalities&#8221;, I guess adopting sharia will please some of you, and OBL will have won.</p>
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