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	<title>Comments on: Medellin Discussion Board: The Court Defers to Congress</title>
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	<link>http://www.scotusblog.com/2008/03/medellin-discussion-board-the-court-defers-to-congress/</link>
	<description>The Supreme Court of the United States blog</description>
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		<title>By: Richard Samp</title>
		<link>http://www.scotusblog.com/2008/03/medellin-discussion-board-the-court-defers-to-congress/comment-page-1/#comment-15413</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Samp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 18:29:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Brad,

Perhaps you misunderstood my original post.  Of course the Supreme Court was free to give effect to the Avena judgment if it had, in fact, believed that the Avena judgment was an accurate determination of U.S. obligations under the Vienna Convention.  But the Supreme Court already determined several years ago in Sanchez-Llamas that Avena was wrongly decided, that the ICJ erred when it concluded that Vienna Convention violations were not subject to waiver under state procedural default rules.  That decision established that the Supreme Court would not defer voluntarily to Avena&#039;s legal conclusions.  So the issue in Medellin was whether, despite the ICJ&#039;s legal error, the Avena judgment constituted a &quot;binding&quot; obligation on the state and federal courts of the United States.  The Court ruled yesterday that Avena was not binding because Congress had determined ICJ rulings are not binding -- when the Senate ratified the Optional Protocol, Article 94 of the UN Charter, and the ICJ Statute, and when Congress failed to adopt subsequent implementing legislation.  The Court made clear that the issue of whether ICJ judgments constitute binding federal law is to be determined solely by Congress; it explicitly rejected the notion that courts are empowered to &quot;pick and choose which [treaty obligations] shall be binding United States law . . . and which shall not.&quot;  Slip Op. at 19.

Regarding Justice Stevens:  I gather you believe that the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals erred when it determined that Texas law barred Medellin from seeking further collateral review of his Vienna Convention claims.  But I doubt that Justice Stevens believes that it is his place to second-guess a Texas court&#039;s interpretation of Texas law.  He is free to suggest that the Texas legislature should change Texas law; I was questioning his apparent suggestion that the Texas courts should consider Medellin&#039;s claims anew despite the statutory bar.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brad,</p>
<p>Perhaps you misunderstood my original post.  Of course the Supreme Court was free to give effect to the Avena judgment if it had, in fact, believed that the Avena judgment was an accurate determination of U.S. obligations under the Vienna Convention.  But the Supreme Court already determined several years ago in Sanchez-Llamas that Avena was wrongly decided, that the ICJ erred when it concluded that Vienna Convention violations were not subject to waiver under state procedural default rules.  That decision established that the Supreme Court would not defer voluntarily to Avena&#8217;s legal conclusions.  So the issue in Medellin was whether, despite the ICJ&#8217;s legal error, the Avena judgment constituted a &#8220;binding&#8221; obligation on the state and federal courts of the United States.  The Court ruled yesterday that Avena was not binding because Congress had determined ICJ rulings are not binding &#8212; when the Senate ratified the Optional Protocol, Article 94 of the UN Charter, and the ICJ Statute, and when Congress failed to adopt subsequent implementing legislation.  The Court made clear that the issue of whether ICJ judgments constitute binding federal law is to be determined solely by Congress; it explicitly rejected the notion that courts are empowered to &#8220;pick and choose which [treaty obligations] shall be binding United States law . . . and which shall not.&#8221;  Slip Op. at 19.</p>
<p>Regarding Justice Stevens:  I gather you believe that the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals erred when it determined that Texas law barred Medellin from seeking further collateral review of his Vienna Convention claims.  But I doubt that Justice Stevens believes that it is his place to second-guess a Texas court&#8217;s interpretation of Texas law.  He is free to suggest that the Texas legislature should change Texas law; I was questioning his apparent suggestion that the Texas courts should consider Medellin&#8217;s claims anew despite the statutory bar.</p>
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		<title>By: Brad Stevens</title>
		<link>http://www.scotusblog.com/2008/03/medellin-discussion-board-the-court-defers-to-congress/comment-page-1/#comment-15397</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad Stevens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 06:05:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/medellin-discussion-board-the-court-defers-to-congress/#comment-15397</guid>
		<description>I think the poster is operating under some misunderstandings.  The Court didn&#039;t hold that Congress had forbidden U.S. Courts from giving binding effect to the &lt;i&gt;Avena&lt;/i&gt; judgment, merely that &lt;i&gt;it&lt;/i&gt; wasn&#039;t going to do so in the absence of Congressional implementation.    The Court simply said the &lt;i&gt;Avena&lt;/i&gt; judgment, in combination with the treaties, was not (yet) federal law.  But, as the majority conceded, to say that something is not federal law is not to say that the U.S. is not obligated by international law to act.  Stevens was chastising Texas--a part of the United States--for spurning this obligation and, by doing so, risking the observance of these rights as to American citizens abroad by other nations.  (The Texas Court actually went out of its way to construe state law so as not to afford any relief, when the reality is that the situation post-&lt;i&gt;Avena&lt;/i&gt; fit the statutory exceptions for merits consideration, which is all the &lt;i&gt;Avena&lt;/i&gt; judgment required.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the poster is operating under some misunderstandings.  The Court didn&#8217;t hold that Congress had forbidden U.S. Courts from giving binding effect to the <i>Avena</i> judgment, merely that <i>it</i> wasn&#8217;t going to do so in the absence of Congressional implementation.    The Court simply said the <i>Avena</i> judgment, in combination with the treaties, was not (yet) federal law.  But, as the majority conceded, to say that something is not federal law is not to say that the U.S. is not obligated by international law to act.  Stevens was chastising Texas&#8211;a part of the United States&#8211;for spurning this obligation and, by doing so, risking the observance of these rights as to American citizens abroad by other nations.  (The Texas Court actually went out of its way to construe state law so as not to afford any relief, when the reality is that the situation post-<i>Avena</i> fit the statutory exceptions for merits consideration, which is all the <i>Avena</i> judgment required.)</p>
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		<title>By: Sean O'Brien</title>
		<link>http://www.scotusblog.com/2008/03/medellin-discussion-board-the-court-defers-to-congress/comment-page-1/#comment-15392</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean O'Brien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 23:52:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Suppression of a statement given in &quot;violation&quot; of the Vienna Convention seems a stretch.  Suppression of relevant evidence is pretty much an American thing, and it would be weird to engraft that onto an international treaty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Suppression of a statement given in &#8220;violation&#8221; of the Vienna Convention seems a stretch.  Suppression of relevant evidence is pretty much an American thing, and it would be weird to engraft that onto an international treaty.</p>
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		<title>By: Trey Forgety</title>
		<link>http://www.scotusblog.com/2008/03/medellin-discussion-board-the-court-defers-to-congress/comment-page-1/#comment-15389</link>
		<dc:creator>Trey Forgety</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 23:10:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Oh, and that &quot;voluntarily agree...&quot; bit is a nod to the ICJ&#039;s decision in the case concerning the &lt;i&gt;Arrest Warrant of 11 April 2000&lt;/i&gt; where the World Court declared that Belgium was under an obligation to &quot;voluntarily&quot; quash a warrant issued in violation of the personal immunity of the Congolese foreign minister.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and that &#8220;voluntarily agree&#8230;&#8221; bit is a nod to the ICJ&#8217;s decision in the case concerning the <i>Arrest Warrant of 11 April 2000</i> where the World Court declared that Belgium was under an obligation to &#8220;voluntarily&#8221; quash a warrant issued in violation of the personal immunity of the Congolese foreign minister.</p>
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		<title>By: Trey Forgety</title>
		<link>http://www.scotusblog.com/2008/03/medellin-discussion-board-the-court-defers-to-congress/comment-page-1/#comment-15388</link>
		<dc:creator>Trey Forgety</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 23:07:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I think referring to the ICJ as a &quot;foreign&quot; tribunal  is a bit off the mark. While &lt;i&gt;par in parem no habet imperium, non habet iurisdictionem&lt;/i&gt; is undoubtedly still the law (&lt;i&gt;Alvarez&lt;/i&gt; notwithstanding), the ICJ is distinct in that the U.S. &lt;i&gt;consented&lt;/i&gt;, at least for a time, to its jurisdiction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think referring to the ICJ as a &#8220;foreign&#8221; tribunal  is a bit off the mark. While <i>par in parem no habet imperium, non habet iurisdictionem</i> is undoubtedly still the law (<i>Alvarez</i> notwithstanding), the ICJ is distinct in that the U.S. <i>consented</i>, at least for a time, to its jurisdiction.</p>
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