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	<title>Comments on: Round-Up</title>
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	<description>The Supreme Court of the United States blog</description>
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		<title>By: Commentator</title>
		<link>http://www.scotusblog.com/2006/07/round-up/#comment-10131</link>
		<dc:creator>Commentator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Jul 2006 16:05:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/uncategorized/round-up/#comment-10131</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I think that looking reading between the lines of the law one can see that they were trying to discourage the use of contraceptives (or at least discourage it among people too poor to buy condomns).&lt;/i&gt;
I think if one looks to the actual history of the statute, one sees that there was no political majority to support it at the time it was struck down, nor had it been enforced recently. It was obsolete and no one&#039;s rights were in danger. It was on the books in the same sense that laws against dancing or being upright after 7 p.m. are still on the books in states that have a Calvinist history; but there is no Calvinist majority with political clout, anywhere. So the question is not whether the statute should have been invalidated, but whether new rights should have been created when the statute was invalidated. I agree that the statute should have been struck down (and if the people really wanted it, they could go to the legislature and reenact it, which would not have happened, because turn-of-the-century Catholics had enacted the law and in the late 1960s the area was virtually all Protestant), but simply striking down the statute for desuetude would have been a judicially modest act. Creating newfangled rights was the problem. I&#039;m not here to support contraceptive-banning statutes. Basically, no one is; no one was at the time of Griswold, either. That doesn&#039;t mean one has an inalienable right to receive contraceptives in the public square. As for your &quot;reading between the lines of the law&quot; -- that would be making up false history to support making up false constitutional rights. Talk about activism.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I think that looking reading between the lines of the law one can see that they were trying to discourage the use of contraceptives (or at least discourage it among people too poor to buy condomns).</i></p>
<p>I think if one looks to the actual history of the statute, one sees that there was no political majority to support it at the time it was struck down, nor had it been enforced recently. It was obsolete and no one&#8217;s rights were in danger. It was on the books in the same sense that laws against dancing or being upright after 7 p.m. are still on the books in states that have a Calvinist history; but there is no Calvinist majority with political clout, anywhere. So the question is not whether the statute should have been invalidated, but whether new rights should have been created when the statute was invalidated. I agree that the statute should have been struck down (and if the people really wanted it, they could go to the legislature and reenact it, which would not have happened, because turn-of-the-century Catholics had enacted the law and in the late 1960s the area was virtually all Protestant), but simply striking down the statute for desuetude would have been a judicially modest act. Creating newfangled rights was the problem. I&#8217;m not here to support contraceptive-banning statutes. Basically, no one is; no one was at the time of Griswold, either. That doesn&#8217;t mean one has an inalienable right to receive contraceptives in the public square. As for your &#8220;reading between the lines of the law&#8221; &#8212; that would be making up false history to support making up false constitutional rights. Talk about activism.</p>
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		<title>By: Worthless1L</title>
		<link>http://www.scotusblog.com/2006/07/round-up/#comment-10130</link>
		<dc:creator>Worthless1L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Jul 2006 04:40:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/uncategorized/round-up/#comment-10130</guid>
		<description>Commentator,
Your reading of the Massachusetts law which was stuck down in very textualist and ignores the legislative intent. I think that looking reading between the lines of the law one can see that they were trying to discourage the use of contraceptives (or at least discourage it among people too poor to buy condomns). That is where Griswold ties into Eisenstadt. The CT law and the MA law are after the same thing: keeping people from using contraceptives. I think that you are likely a bright enough person to figure out where this is going, so I&#039;ll get to my second point.
What I was refering to above was not dicta, it was essential to the opinion; without that construction of the 4th and 5th, the fears of the invasion of the home required to enforce this law would fall completely outside of constitutional protection.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Commentator,</p>
<p>Your reading of the Massachusetts law which was stuck down in very textualist and ignores the legislative intent. I think that looking reading between the lines of the law one can see that they were trying to discourage the use of contraceptives (or at least discourage it among people too poor to buy condomns). That is where Griswold ties into Eisenstadt. The CT law and the MA law are after the same thing: keeping people from using contraceptives. I think that you are likely a bright enough person to figure out where this is going, so I&#8217;ll get to my second point.</p>
<p>What I was refering to above was not dicta, it was essential to the opinion; without that construction of the 4th and 5th, the fears of the invasion of the home required to enforce this law would fall completely outside of constitutional protection.</p>
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		<title>By: Commentator</title>
		<link>http://www.scotusblog.com/2006/07/round-up/#comment-10129</link>
		<dc:creator>Commentator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jul 2006 07:23:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/uncategorized/round-up/#comment-10129</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;He states that the Fourth and Fifth Amendments constitute a &quot;protection against all governmental invasions &#039;of the sanctity of a man&#039;s home and privacies of life.&#039;&quot;&lt;/i&gt;
I think you are overstretching dicta. But even if your stretching of dicta makes law, it still doesn&#039;t bridge the gap between Griswold and Eisenstadt. A single individual receiving contraceptives in public has nothing to do with a married man using contraceptives in the privacy of his home with his wife. If your reading of Griswold is correct, then the mere fact that you can get it on in the privacy of your home without governmental intrusion means that public sex acts cannot be criminalized. Remind me not to take my kids to the park when you&#039;re in town.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>He states that the Fourth and Fifth Amendments constitute a &#8220;protection against all governmental invasions &#8216;of the sanctity of a man&#8217;s home and privacies of life.&#8217;&#8221;</i></p>
<p>I think you are overstretching dicta. But even if your stretching of dicta makes law, it still doesn&#8217;t bridge the gap between Griswold and Eisenstadt. A single individual receiving contraceptives in public has nothing to do with a married man using contraceptives in the privacy of his home with his wife. If your reading of Griswold is correct, then the mere fact that you can get it on in the privacy of your home without governmental intrusion means that public sex acts cannot be criminalized. Remind me not to take my kids to the park when you&#8217;re in town.</p>
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		<title>By: Worthless1L</title>
		<link>http://www.scotusblog.com/2006/07/round-up/#comment-10128</link>
		<dc:creator>Worthless1L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Jul 2006 00:47:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/uncategorized/round-up/#comment-10128</guid>
		<description>Commentator,
My appologies, I misunderstood your previous comment, &quot;[Eisenstadt] came out of nowhere.&quot; I did not read that as a criticism of the logic of Eisenstadt, but rather as a factual statement. I did not mean to insult your intelligence, but rather correct a factual error (hence the citation rather than argument). I now offer argument.
I first must say that your argument is not without merit; if one is to very narrowly read Griswold to say that it &quot;discovered&quot; the right of married couples to use contraceptives within their bedrooms -- or even that it created the right to privacy in the bedroom -- then I must conceed that Eisenstadt is unreasonable.  However, Douglas&#039;s language in his analysis of the Fourth and Fifth Amendment&#039;s &quot;penumbras&quot; suggests that he is actually finding a broader right to privacy. He states that the Fourth and Fifth Amendments constitute a &quot;protection against all governmental invasions &#039;of the sanctity of a man&#039;s home and privacies of life.&#039;&quot;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Commentator,<br />
My appologies, I misunderstood your previous comment, &#8220;[Eisenstadt] came out of nowhere.&#8221; I did not read that as a criticism of the logic of Eisenstadt, but rather as a factual statement. I did not mean to insult your intelligence, but rather correct a factual error (hence the citation rather than argument). I now offer argument.</p>
<p>I first must say that your argument is not without merit; if one is to very narrowly read Griswold to say that it &#8220;discovered&#8221; the right of married couples to use contraceptives within their bedrooms &#8212; or even that it created the right to privacy in the bedroom &#8212; then I must conceed that Eisenstadt is unreasonable.  However, Douglas&#8217;s language in his analysis of the Fourth and Fifth Amendment&#8217;s &#8220;penumbras&#8221; suggests that he is actually finding a broader right to privacy. He states that the Fourth and Fifth Amendments constitute a &#8220;protection against all governmental invasions &#8216;of the sanctity of a man&#8217;s home and privacies of life.&#8217;&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Commentator</title>
		<link>http://www.scotusblog.com/2006/07/round-up/#comment-10127</link>
		<dc:creator>Commentator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Jul 2006 19:29:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/uncategorized/round-up/#comment-10127</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;It is categorically impossible &lt;i&gt;for me&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt;
Here&#039;s the thing. It is categorically impossible for me to have made the argument without having carefully read the opinions, because I have carefully read the opinions and I did so before I made the argument. So, watch yourself. And, I hope that my use of italics did not threaten you.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>It is categorically impossible <i>for me</i></b></p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the thing. It is categorically impossible for me to have made the argument without having carefully read the opinions, because I have carefully read the opinions and I did so before I made the argument. So, watch yourself. And, I hope that my use of italics did not threaten you.</p>
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		<title>By: federalist</title>
		<link>http://www.scotusblog.com/2006/07/round-up/#comment-10126</link>
		<dc:creator>federalist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Jul 2006 17:17:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/uncategorized/round-up/#comment-10126</guid>
		<description>Not to defend Commentator, but I find it hard to believe that people would think a &quot;watch yourself&quot; would be threatening, even vaguely threatening.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not to defend Commentator, but I find it hard to believe that people would think a &#8220;watch yourself&#8221; would be threatening, even vaguely threatening.</p>
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		<title>By: stephanrjohnson</title>
		<link>http://www.scotusblog.com/2006/07/round-up/#comment-10125</link>
		<dc:creator>stephanrjohnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Jul 2006 15:31:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/uncategorized/round-up/#comment-10125</guid>
		<description>Commentator wrote:
1. It is categorically impossible for me to have made the criticism of your argument I made without having carefully read both Griswold and Eisenstadt. Watch yourself.
First of all, you shouldn&#039;t tell people to watch themselves.  It comes across as vaguely threatening.
Second of all, it is not at all &quot;categorically impossible.&quot;  In fact, you needn&#039;t have read the decisions at all, let alone carefully.  You simply could have read an analysis saying basically what you say, and then repeated that analysis.
Commentator also wrote:
3. Citations are no substitute for reason and no cure for irrationality.
Neither is the bolding of text and use of all-capital sentences.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Commentator wrote:</p>
<p>1. It is categorically impossible for me to have made the criticism of your argument I made without having carefully read both Griswold and Eisenstadt. Watch yourself.</p>
<p>First of all, you shouldn&#8217;t tell people to watch themselves.  It comes across as vaguely threatening.</p>
<p>Second of all, it is not at all &#8220;categorically impossible.&#8221;  In fact, you needn&#8217;t have read the decisions at all, let alone carefully.  You simply could have read an analysis saying basically what you say, and then repeated that analysis.</p>
<p>Commentator also wrote:</p>
<p>3. Citations are no substitute for reason and no cure for irrationality.</p>
<p>Neither is the bolding of text and use of all-capital sentences.</p>
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		<title>By: Commentator</title>
		<link>http://www.scotusblog.com/2006/07/round-up/#comment-10124</link>
		<dc:creator>Commentator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Jul 2006 14:22:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/uncategorized/round-up/#comment-10124</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;Eisenstadt didn&#039;t come out of thin air and is actually an expansion of Griswold. eg 404 US 348, 445 &amp; 453 if you&#039;d like to see Eisenstadt citing to Griswold or read the explicit expansion of Griswold.&lt;/b&gt;
1. It is categorically impossible for me to have made the criticism of your argument I made without having carefully read both &lt;i&gt;Griswold&lt;/i&gt; and &lt;i&gt;Eisenstadt&lt;/i&gt;. Watch yourself.
2. The fact that &lt;i&gt;Eisenstadt&lt;/i&gt; &lt;b&gt;claims&lt;/b&gt; it is a necessary incident of &lt;i&gt;Griswold&lt;/i&gt; does not prove that it is. I may say that my uncle is the Monkey King of Mars, that does not prove that I have an uncle. In fact, &lt;i&gt;Griswold&lt;/i&gt; is based on marital privacy of the bedroom. That is not the rationale supporting &lt;i&gt;Eisenstadt&lt;/i&gt;. &lt;i&gt;Eisenstadt&lt;/i&gt; is a non-sequitur. Is it an &lt;i&gt;expansion&lt;/i&gt;? Sure. &lt;b&gt;BUT THAT WAS THE POINT: IT IS AN UNWARRANTED EXPANSION.&lt;/b&gt;
3. Citations are no substitute for reason and no cure for irrationality.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Eisenstadt didn&#8217;t come out of thin air and is actually an expansion of Griswold. eg 404 US 348, 445 &#038; 453 if you&#8217;d like to see Eisenstadt citing to Griswold or read the explicit expansion of Griswold.</b></p>
<p>1. It is categorically impossible for me to have made the criticism of your argument I made without having carefully read both <i>Griswold</i> and <i>Eisenstadt</i>. Watch yourself.<br />
2. The fact that <i>Eisenstadt</i> <b>claims</b> it is a necessary incident of <i>Griswold</i> does not prove that it is. I may say that my uncle is the Monkey King of Mars, that does not prove that I have an uncle. In fact, <i>Griswold</i> is based on marital privacy of the bedroom. That is not the rationale supporting <i>Eisenstadt</i>. <i>Eisenstadt</i> is a non-sequitur. Is it an <i>expansion</i>? Sure. <b>BUT THAT WAS THE POINT: IT IS AN UNWARRANTED EXPANSION.</b><br />
3. Citations are no substitute for reason and no cure for irrationality.</p>
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		<title>By: Worthless1L</title>
		<link>http://www.scotusblog.com/2006/07/round-up/#comment-10123</link>
		<dc:creator>Worthless1L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Jul 2006 22:17:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/uncategorized/round-up/#comment-10123</guid>
		<description>Commentator,
Eisenstadt didn&#039;t come out of thin air and is actually an expansion of Griswold. eg 404 US 348, 445 &amp; 453 if you&#039;d like to see Eisenstadt citing to Griswold or read the explicit expansion of Griswold.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Commentator,<br />
Eisenstadt didn&#8217;t come out of thin air and is actually an expansion of Griswold. eg 404 US 348, 445 &#038; 453 if you&#8217;d like to see Eisenstadt citing to Griswold or read the explicit expansion of Griswold.</p>
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		<title>By: Commentator</title>
		<link>http://www.scotusblog.com/2006/07/round-up/#comment-10122</link>
		<dc:creator>Commentator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Jul 2006 21:49:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/uncategorized/round-up/#comment-10122</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;It seems to me that those cases are simply logical outgrowths of Griswold, and assuming that the Court accepts Griswold as good law, they are faithfully executing their responsibilities.&lt;/i&gt;
One could simply attack you for your misreading of Griswold. Griswold is founded on the marital privacy that inheres in the bedroom. It has nothing to do with the individual right to receive contraceptives in public, as does Eisenstadt, which is its non-sequitur progeny. Your reliance on Griswold is fine; but Roe is not a natural outgrowth of Griswold; neither is Lawrence. Roe and Lawrence descend from Eisenstadt, which came out of nowhere.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>It seems to me that those cases are simply logical outgrowths of Griswold, and assuming that the Court accepts Griswold as good law, they are faithfully executing their responsibilities.</i></p>
<p>One could simply attack you for your misreading of Griswold. Griswold is founded on the marital privacy that inheres in the bedroom. It has nothing to do with the individual right to receive contraceptives in public, as does Eisenstadt, which is its non-sequitur progeny. Your reliance on Griswold is fine; but Roe is not a natural outgrowth of Griswold; neither is Lawrence. Roe and Lawrence descend from Eisenstadt, which came out of nowhere.</p>
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